Skip to main content

A Response to My Question about Gamow




Recently, the physicist Sabine Hossenfelder, who maintains a wonderful blog, posted her thoughts about "infinity," its necessity as a mathematicians' tool, on the one hand, but its unreality from the point of view of the science of physics, on the other. Her point is that a physicist only regards something as real if it is necessary in order to explain an observation. Infinity, she says, will never fill that bill.  

She also went a bit into the mathematics of infinity, and the fact that not all infinities are the same. The real numbers are a different sort of infinity from the integers.

I used the comment section under her blog post to ask a question that has long been on my mind. 

I remember when I was a kid, many decades ago, some of us nerdy types excitedly read "One, Two, Three, Infinity" by George Gamow. Gamow covered some of the same territory you just did although I'm guessing progress has been made in the last half century or so. If I recall correctly, Gamow said that only three "transfinite" numbers had as yet been identified. The lowest order of transfinite is the number of all integers. The second is the number of all real numbers. The third is the number of curves one can draw through space. Again, I'm relying on memory, but I believe he said nobody had figured out a fourth transfinite. Has that changed? Are there now more transfinite numbers than their used to be?

Hossenfelder had said in the post above this comment that there are an infinite number of types of infinity, although only two especially important ones, Gamow's first two. She hadn't said anything about curves in space, although it makes sense to me that it could be a third order, beyond the real numbers.

Anyway, my question did get a reaction, though not from Hossenfelder. The (first) reaction was from Lawrence Crowell. Not chopped liver. Crowell is affiliated with the Institute for Advanced Study (Albert Einstein's old stomping-ground in Princeton). He is this Lawrence Crowell:  (PDF) BMS Supertranslations as Coset States & SLOCC (researchgate.net)

Anyway, Crowell wrote the following. I paste it exactly although I suspect there are typos. I would probably change his meaning if I fooled around with it at all. 

"There are the aleph's of George Cantor, where aleph's is countable infinity. Aleph1 is the first uncountable transfinite number. It is also the continuum, or Bernays and Cohen showed it to be unprovably consistent with set theory. It is a form of Godel's theorem. It also turns out a y alephn also works.

"For physics and computation only aleph0 and aleph1 are at all possibly relevant. There many alephs. The beyond those are least inaccessible cardinals, due to Uman. Beyond this, which is beyond classical set theory, are nonstandard set theories. I have little idea of those things." 

This seems to have been quickly dashed-off. But I take it that my suspicious was correct, the number of infinities didn't stop at 3, as Gamow suggested (even in the title of the book). There are aleph0, aleph1, and "many" beyond -- I gather the curves-through-space thing turns out not to be special. 

I also have resolved, as a new year approaches, that (1) I am not going to look up what BMS supertranslations are, but (2) I am going to find out what Bernays and Cohen [and Uman?] might have said about the manifold infinities. 

I pursued the matter a bit further on the comments board, asking Crowell, "to  pursue the point, there is nothing special about the infinity of number of curves in space? I believe there was supposed to be a proof, analogous to the 'diagonal proof' but different, that this infinity is of a larger sort than the infinity of real numbers." 

Crowell hasn't replied. Someone named Steven Evans, of whom I know nothing else, did reply and says that there has been a recent discussion of this in Stack Exchange. 

https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/2550313/is-aleph-3-the-cardinality-of-all-the-surfaces-that-exists

Comments

  1. judi angka online Situs ini selalu menjadi tempat yang menguntungkan bagi petaruh yang bermain dan bergabung di dalamnya.

    ReplyDelete

Post a Comment

Popular posts from this blog

A Story About Coleridge

This is a quote from a memoir by Dorothy Wordsworth, reflecting on a trip she took with two famous poets, her brother, William Wordsworth, and their similarly gifted companion, Samuel Taylor Coleridge.   We sat upon a bench, placed for the sake of one of these views, whence we looked down upon the waterfall, and over the open country ... A lady and gentleman, more expeditious tourists than ourselves, came to the spot; they left us at the seat, and we found them again at another station above the Falls. Coleridge, who is always good-natured enough to enter into conversation with anybody whom he meets in his way, began to talk with the gentleman, who observed that it was a majestic waterfall. Coleridge was delighted with the accuracy of the epithet, particularly as he had been settling in his own mind the precise meaning of the words grand, majestic, sublime, etc., and had discussed the subject with William at some length the day before. “Yes, sir,” says Coleridge, “it is a majesti

Five Lessons from the Allegory of the Cave

  Please correct me if there are others. But it seems to be there are five lessons the reader is meant to draw from the story about the cave.   First, Plato  is working to devalue what we would call empiricism. He is saying that keeping track of the shadows on the cave wall, trying to make sense of what you see there, will NOT get you to wisdom. Second, Plato is contending that reality comes in levels. The shadows on the wall are illusions. The solid objects being passed around behind my back are more real than their shadows are. BUT … the world outside the the cave is more real than that — and the sun by which that world is illuminated is the top of the hierarchy. So there isn’t a binary choice of real/unreal. There are levels. Third, he equates realness with knowability.  I  only have opinions about the shadows. Could I turn around, I could have at least the glimmerings of knowledge. Could I get outside the cave, I would really Know. Fourth, the parable assigns a task to philosophers

Searle: The Chinese Room

John Searle has become the object of accusations of improper conduct. These accusations even have some people in the world of academic philosophy saying that instructors in that world should try to avoid teaching Searle's views. That is an odd contention, and has given rise to heated exchanges in certain corners of the blogosphere.  At Leiter Reports, I encountered a comment from someone describing himself as "grad student drop out." GSDO said: " This is a side question (and not at all an attempt to answer the question BL posed): How important is John Searle's work? Are people still working on speech act theory or is that just another dead end in the history of 20th century philosophy? My impression is that his reputation is somewhat inflated from all of his speaking engagements and NYRoB reviews. The Chinese room argument is a classic, but is there much more to his work than that?" I took it upon myself to answer that on LR. But here I'll tak